Ireland - Clare B

Interview Details

• Region: Europe - Ireland
• Language: English
• **Interviewee: Clare B
• **Interviewer: Mags Liddy
• Date: April 2017
• PGA Affiliation: Gluaiseacht
• Bio: Clare B lives in Dublin, Ireland. As a student she was a member of Gluaiseacht, a social and environmental network, and attended a European PGA meeting in the Netherlands in 2002. Clare has been centrally involved in a range of community, feminist and anarchist organisations and was a founding member of the Abortion Rights Campaign.
• Transcript: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/l1s3bkvsu9yxwhrl8jgd5/220324_PGA-Ireland-Clare-B-April-2017.docx?dl=0&rlkey=lqp51h6n8bp8cv2qfvcezm9zc

Transcript

Mags Liddy: We’ll be talking about PGA- and we can talk a little more about the consent at the end. And have a think about it. Sure I can leave you the form and you can send it on.

Okay. PGA- Peoples Global Action, going back in time. But can you remember where you might first have heard about, or read about PGA.

Clare B: I couldn’t say yeah probably through my involvement in Gluaiseacht. I’d heard it mentioned a few times. I’m not entirely sure- had somebody been to a PGA meeting before? But I remember possibly the Green Pepper Magazine that would have been an article on it and I would have seen this. It might be mentioned in an editorial. So the awareness, it was there. And then, I am trying to think if that was before or after, hmmm.. when we were setting up the Grassroots Gathering, the PGA hallmarks, like I don’t know- you might remember which came first in terms of all that?

Mags Liddy: I think before. Well was there a Grassroots Gathering before Ecotopia in Ireland?

Clare B: Well anyway, I don’t know, that’s my other memory. And because we had a relationship with EYFA- Euro Forest Action. And they were very European, and they had connections with all these groups and so they probably mentioned it as well. But it possibly was Eoin from Gluaiseacht, I am not sure.

Mags Liddy: Yeah so what was your involvement- you attended?

Clare B: I attended- I don’t know if it was the first or second meeting of PGA- it was a meeting in Leiden in the Netherlands in around late August- September, 2002 you are telling me.

And like my main motivation probably was just to get away, go somewhere and to kind of decompress after the intensity of Ecotopia. Because we had been organising all year, then we had been on site for 2 weeks building then we had the gathering.

Mags Liddy: Was this Ecotopia in Ireland?

Clare B: Yeah that was Ecotopia in August in Ireland in Co Clare, and I was very involved in organising it, as was yourself. So I think some people thought this is something we can do- I think we went from one to the other more or less. And so it is kind of something to go to that would be interesting, and something different. And all summer I probably hadn’t gone anywhere cos we had been so actively involved in getting this thing together in August. So maybe I kind of tagged along with other people that were going and I remember coming away from Ecotopia and I think my dad might have collected myself and Tracy, spending one night in our house or you know. And we hitched from Mayo across to Dublin- I can’t even remember how, across England with a truck driver hitching and then on over to Leiden and then we did that on the reverse on the way back as well. And we met other people from Ireland as well. So that’s how I got there- that’s the extent of my involvement I suppose..

Mags Liddy: So PGA- was there… what were you expecting Leiden to be? What were you expecting PGA to be about?

Clare B: I suppose … you know we had already been organising with EYFA, we had already been at a Winter Meeting and we had been in Gluaiseacht, I already knew, you know, we would meet people there who were anti-capitalist, very leftie, very anarchist- I can say that now, but probably back then I would not have described myself as anarchist or anybody else as one either. So I knew that you would meet people there who had a good understanding of what was going on in the world. And yeah it was definitely environmentalism as well as other political issues.

So I knew that there would be meetings, communal dinners – I can’t remember, I presume we slept in a sleeping bag in a centre somewhere I’m not totally sure. I was expecting workshops, meeting people and then after the intensity of Ecotopia I was definitely going to be a participant, like there was no way I was doing anything else. To me- it was going for a little break. Yes.

Mags Liddy: And what kind of workshops did you go to? Anything you might have learned there?

Clare B: Well thinking about it earlier today, the one thing I did remember going to was this gender changers workshop- I had never heard about that. It was an IT computer crew and they were all women and it was for the other women and women identified who could attend the workshop. Come to think of it, it probably had a long-lasting effect on me. It was really all about demystifying the computers, so you went in pairs up to different machines then all the pieces of one machine were one colour. So you learned all about motherboards, the this and that, the fan, and these different things. They were all individual components that went inside a computer, and she would take that out and put it back together. I mean I knew about computers and the Internet, I studied engineering so I wasn’t like “no computers”.

Possibly it was the first time I attended a woman only and women identified only event, like that was full-on lefty and it was okay to do that. Even at that stage I was 21 it would have been like oh you know women really need to organize separately. You know it was very much the beginning of my feminist journey and that was cool. And maybe there was non-binary people there, and that was the first time I might come across people like that. It was really interesting for me.

And then –I am trying to think- what other workshops were there- there was Eurodusnie. Well it was like it was a squatted building that we used to go to- because it had a free internet cafe so that would have been the time of, like, there was no wifi back then.

And it was very interesting for me as well to see that it was a squat but very functional, very task driven, providing this thing, as a resource for people to use. So that was in a different building – I don’t think it was the building that the whole PGA took place but we went there for the gender changing workshop - I am not entirely sure now- maybe I didn’t really learn an awful lot [laughter].

The other, I mean my memory was poor, but we were coming out of some really intense times of organising so I was probably again you know, kinda participating in things, more observing as much as anything. I’d never been somewhere where there were so many political people, so many people, political activists from Eastern Europe, a few people I had met like when we were in Barcelona, I hadn’t seen such strong representation from these different countries.

And I remember one specific workshop, about activism in Eastern Europe, on politics. I remember going to it cos wow I know nothing about this. Obviously there was massive crossover with the issues we were speaking about: anti-consumerism, anti-capitalism, environmental stuff. But that they were all, this was 2002, there was a whole other level of things that they were dealing with. So that was fascinating and then also I just remembered this now- I can’t remember what language it was in, English was not the first language, English was the second or third language it was translated in, at that particular meeting. It was a very good experience for me, of not being in the primary position of being you know, the primary language as always privileged, to be on the receiving end while they’re all discussing things about issues or whatever it was the topic of the workshop might have been. That’s very interesting as well. It might have happened. No I don’t think it happened when we were in Spain, English tends to be the first language.

Let’s think about what else.. The other- in that Indymedia article I mentioned, I might have attended some other workshops but I don’t really remember.. I do however remember the newspaper that came out each day.

It was blue and white .. [inaudible]. Do you have any? I think I have one- I was clearing out the attic at home and I found them. Each of them has the 10 hallmarks on the last page, and a few other little summaries. And we heard when we were there that an irish guy was running the newspaper- he used to work at nighttime over there and get to keep running things. So our paths didn’t; cross, but we met at the end of the trip. The guy that did it. So yeah it was like I forgot- Robert - Robert something…

Mags Liddy: Yeah it was long time ago 2002- augh 15 years ago [laughter]. Would you say any of your involvement, your attendance, your understanding, the hallmarks, any of what you learned while you were there, the experiences in Leiden, any of them have any influence on you and over the past 15 years any influence you hand over the past 15 years.

Clare B: Well I’m not sitting around thinking, like do you remember Leiden…but I think they were a massive influence but in the wider picture. It fitted very neatly into my travelling to Amsterdam. travel to Barcelona, going to Moldova.

And meeting different people and then while I was at some of those events, different people would all be there and I recognise that I’m getting to know people so the same people.

Mags Liddy: the same people ?

Clare B: Some of the same people like the Carbusters people from Prague. We would have met through EYFA- we had their magazines, and some of the people we met at Can Masdeu the squat in Barcelona, they were PGA. Like I was young 21 year old coming from Ballyhaunis like I was still living in Galway at the time, but I didn’t feel too out of place, too overwhelmed by it. I didn’t feel myself to be too separate from them. There had been a build-up to it. We had successfully organised Ecotopia, we had put ourselves on the map, our confidence. Yes it helped me see our role in the bigger picture. We’re not just on a small island in the west of Europe you know battling away at something, trying to do something about antiwar, or draw people’s attention to sweatshops or whatever it might be - that you know your part with bigger movements and that’s quite uplifting. And I think then I moved to Dublin in 2003, I brought all that with me, and all the connections that we have as well, the network, useful, so yeah…

Mags Liddy: When you say uplifting and the connection were useful, the international dimension, the European I suppose cos it was all different European organisations and connections…

Clare B: Cos it was the European PGA meeting, I had actually forgotten, and we knew about the Global South, the PGA began there, and how important, how much stronger it was there and its importance was there. I suppose we knew in some ways we were playing catch up to that International PGA. That was interesting too. I suppose to feel like you are part of something that has this kind of global impact as well. You know I was only 21 so I wasn’t sitting around reflecting on things for too long.

And the experience I had so far, the activism experience of people I met, like maybe I took things for granted. Looking back I realise how it was such a great experience, we did so many great things, we had such confidence, That nothing could stop us, we could try to do whenever we wanted. And while I was there, I took it all for granted, you know that it was great to have third level students who just had connections in whatever country it might be. So there are activist connections as well so that if you want to go travelling, or whatever you do. EYFA probably provided that initial connection, and I don’t know if that has happened since.

Mags Liddy: And did it feel important, did it feel part of, did it feel like something big, like a big mobilisation, or a big presence politically…

Clare B: I am not sure- I remember the plenary. This was the first time I was at a plenary - the plenary of the PGA European meeting European PGA meeting in Leiden. I remember it was a really big building, more formal than other place, that is my memory, I could be wrong but that is my memory. We were sitting in a circle, by language areas, or by topics I am not too sure. And there was definitely it was very structured, very non-hierarchical, people would report back and report in, and report back so you know - I suppose do you know , people were taking it seriously, and they were hoping for some kind of outcome.

At the same time I can see that… I was refreshing myself just reading that article there- they were trying to get conveners for the next year, so it’s all well and good to have a core of people who take on and be organised in this respect. Looking back on it, I bet they were. You know those European volunteers.

Mags Liddy: the EVS..

Clare B: the EVS volunteers [laughter] the whole thing was founded on EVS volunteers back then. And what was I saying- that if no one would take that on, then where would it go from there?

And reading the article there, where it says the time it takes to make those decisions, or the discussions that seem to go nowhere for a long time. And also that the discussions that were going on between what should the PGA be, should it be a network with some sort of support and kinda invisible, or should it have some kind of status- I thought that was really interesting. I mean I probably knew I was going to go back to Ireland and do my thing in Ireland. Yeah knowing that it was there and I was happy to go to a meeting once a year, and we were the PGA contact, Gluaiseacht were, I am fairly certain and we probably had a great plan to try to be whatever that would be.

But I would be, I would have known we would have done our own activism, on our own topics. I prefer those kind of events we can come together any one year and share with each other. There’s no pressure really to make a definite decision but make some connections as a catalyst for something, restoring yourself and social …

Mags Liddy: and learning ?

Clare B: yeah learning… Yeah . So it was a big event, events and I hadn’t really been at something as big as that before. But I don’t think I went home thinking the revolution was going to happen tomorrow or that it was going to be driven by a few EVS volunteers, PGA volunteers and a few lads from Italy. Maybe I was even cynical back then..

Mags Liddy: But that kind of support and network, you felt that was something…

Clare B: Yeah the support… I was fortunate that I already had that support from going to other European meetings. So that kinda grew it, and widened it to Eastern Europe. …. It gave me a lot of confidence, I can definitely do anything from then. It has influenced my activism, and the wide variety of projects I have been involved in since. Whether it was confidence in speaking, or facilitating meetings, or lessons learned the hard way of how to organise and how not to organise.

Like the Hallmarks as we were saying earlier, a bit of a chicken and an egg, the Hallmarks were the basis of the Grassroots Gatherings, and I would have been very involved in the beginning stages of that. And after being at the PGA, and seeing the PGA, seeing it working together with so many people, with so many languages and so many people in so many different workshops and so many topics that it was very easy to visualize how that could work regathering in Ireland so that there and there are all the things we had learned at Ecotopia, you have to have good food for people, you have to have comfort, you have to have good topics, how you organise things, the real basics of organising… And I suppose note- taking and.. I’m not too sure.

And if you were organising a workshop, you might invite somebody over and give a workshop or somebody is traveling and can make connections and they might call in that they might make connections with him and vice versa.

Mags Liddy: You did mention gender and the gender changes interchanges workshop but I think it was the beginning of your feminist journeys. But in terms of gender, and the PGA meetings, did gender … like… gender was the topic of a workshop, was it ever come up as an issue, concern?

Clare B: Well I think that wasn’t the key moment, but at the early stages from where I am now. But…. I mean I was quite blind to gender issues when I was 21. I was you know I was studying engineer completely male dominated, I could do my work and do well, I did my exams, and nothing got in my way.

Like in some ways I hadn’t been exposed to the impacts of gendered misogyny and all these other things. Obviously I had, but the scales hadn’t dropped from my eyes at that stage I think.

I was definitely aware of that after Ecotopia. That we didn’t want the women chopping potatoes and the men chopping wood, or something like that. I was very aware in that way, but I don’t think I had the strong foundations to really bite into the topic. I was still finding my way. I am sure I would have described myself as a feminist, but I was still trying to think things through.

So at that stage I have been, probably. Even the fact that I said I went there to the workshop about women in where ever it was- That again would show that was something that I hadn’t thought about. No more than me going to the one about activism in Eastern Europe. I was purposely going to things that I was to actually sit in the corner and observe you know. So I would have gone to that and not really participated in it because I was learning.

The fact that there was women only and women identified computer techie workshop- was quite new for me but I don’t remember being involved in deep discussions on gender and organising. I mean in terms of I don’t even remember noting, like now everywhere I go, I note down the ratio of men to women, you know for the last 13 years of my career, in every meeting I note it down, it is something I do all the time. I am sure there were some loud men organising at the time, but I’m sure there are some women as well, but on reflection I don’t even remember taking or paying much heed to it. But that might have been the state of mind as well. So yeah I don’t recall that much about gender and the PGA, at the European meeting anyway.

Mags Liddy: Ok, so when you came back to Ireland, and Gluaiseacht was the contact- was any follow-up? And the Hallmarks- they were used for the Grassroots gatherings for a while but then they were changed, or?

Clare B: That I don’t know- I know they formed the basis at the beginning..

Mags Liddy: Yeah I remember they were at the beginning.. but then they were..

Clare B: Edited were they?

Mags Liddy: Edited and kinda adapted to our context- so long ago. I can’t remember..

Clare B: I’m just thinking about it now. I think this is what happened. We were the contact, listed as the PGA contact, and there was a convenor for a year or so, but … I don’t even know if they are still going, I presume PGA isn’t? but I didn’t even look it up. And this was in the days before social media so there is a that kind of gap .. and when I came home from Leiden, I went into my final year of my Engineering degree I would not have the capability or the time or anything to follow up on any of those things.

And at that stage I took a step back from ECO-SOC and Gluaiseacht and all that – I mean I probably took it easy in Third Year cos I was so committed to activism and all of that, so for my final year I was so busy and so I was focused.. college course .. [inaudible]

Mags Liddy: It’s your degree! Yeah well this is one of the areas of the research, did PGA have any kind of lasting influence, in the way of organising or connections that were made. Have they any resonance with anti-austerity groups or other organising, is there any overlap of people. Because PGA wasn’t a big presence in Ireland, as you say we were on a contact list, we were never convenors, there was no huge involvement there. I’m not sure that there is any lasting influence there…

Clare B: Only that it would have a personally lasting influence, from the European context and exposure, in gaining confidence as lots of other things and I don’t know if anything like that exists, I would occasionally hear about anarchist meetings far away and I would think I’d love to go to something like that…

We organised a feminist gathering here in Ireland, we were hoping that someone in the UK would do something and there was one in Spain, anarcho-feminism one we went to. There is serious lack of, and I was thinking as well, when I went I recognise people, I wouldn’t know them well enough to go talk to them, but it made me feel more comfortable.

Mags Liddy: More connected?

Clare B: yeah and that connection is probably replaced now by who you follow on Twitter or Facebook, and I am sure there are connections online, and they are following each other- probably very Anglo-Englishy, but nothing beats sitting with people eating dinner, going to workshops, having pints together, dancing, I would sorely miss it. And I would love to have that now- and it might be people in their early twenties… people in their early 20s we always hoped that something would come along and be this kind of like radical lefty kind of umbrella group of universities and third level student, why not?

And sometimes I think- we were doing this when we were 19 20 and 21. I was reading this- you know its logical, we can do these things. I don’t know what the cocktail of ingredients were there at the time, but we all gelled there at the right time. There could be other European networks that are not political parties that are fully non-hierarchical that are crossing a wide spectrum of issues which is nice. Maybe there is one and I just don’t know about it…

Mags Liddy: Is there anything else you would like to say about PGA?

Clare B: No- I was very grateful to the organisers in Leiden at the time. I know what it would take to organise something like that, so I know there was a lot of people working really hard.

Staying up all night doing the newspaper, spending all day chopping vegetables, all the important things in the background that you mightn’t get to see, working very hard. Even now I would be very grateful to all those people that did take the effort to do that

Mags Liddy: Shall we leave it at that?

Clare B: Yeah.